1 00:00:25,190 --> 00:00:07,580 [Music] 2 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:28,190 greetings citizens and welcome to 3 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:33,130 unknown I'm Jason McClellan and we have 4 00:00:39,810 --> 00:00:36,730 a roundtable prepared for you tonight 5 00:00:42,270 --> 00:00:39,820 we're doing a special live recording of 6 00:00:44,070 --> 00:00:42,280 unknown we are live right now on 7 00:00:48,810 --> 00:00:44,080 Facebook live we are recording this on 8 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:48,820 Sunday April 29th so we look forward to 9 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:50,290 having people join us we'll get to 10 00:00:56,190 --> 00:00:53,770 questions at the end of the show but let 11 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:56,200 me go ahead and introduce to you our 12 00:01:00,090 --> 00:00:58,570 panel because we do have a panel a 13 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:00,100 roundtable discussion tonight 14 00:01:15,180 --> 00:01:12,810 so first Maureen Elsberry Maureen 15 00:01:17,700 --> 00:01:15,190 Elsberry from rogue planet is with us 16 00:01:20,070 --> 00:01:17,710 Ryan Sprague everybody here this is this 17 00:01:22,260 --> 00:01:20,080 is a rogue planet reunion real hit Ryan 18 00:01:25,710 --> 00:01:22,270 Sprague somewhere the skies rogue planet 19 00:01:29,130 --> 00:01:25,720 and Shaina heard Shaina heard is new a 20 00:01:31,290 --> 00:01:29,140 new member of our squad at rogue planet 21 00:01:34,469 --> 00:01:31,300 so welcome Shannon welcome everybody to 22 00:01:36,359 --> 00:01:34,479 our fun roundtable thanks for having us 23 00:01:39,059 --> 00:01:36,369 here yeah absolutely 24 00:01:41,550 --> 00:01:39,069 well the topic of our discussion tonight 25 00:01:43,559 --> 00:01:41,560 is move on and that's a very broad topic 26 00:01:46,230 --> 00:01:43,569 and for those of you who don't know what 27 00:01:51,839 --> 00:01:46,240 Buffon is MUFON is the mutual UFO 28 00:01:53,910 --> 00:01:51,849 network really the largest current UFO 29 00:01:56,809 --> 00:01:53,920 organization they are an organization a 30 00:02:00,180 --> 00:01:56,819 nonprofit organization that exists to 31 00:02:03,749 --> 00:02:00,190 study and Explorer UFO and UFO related 32 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:03,759 phenomena and depending on who you talk 33 00:02:08,490 --> 00:02:06,250 to and depending on when they choose to 34 00:02:10,980 --> 00:02:08,500 to list this in their their objectives a 35 00:02:15,690 --> 00:02:10,990 scientific approach to the study of UFOs 36 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:15,700 and in recent years and certainly in the 37 00:02:21,290 --> 00:02:17,650 past two years there's been a lot of 38 00:02:25,050 --> 00:02:21,300 negative press about MUFON and a lot of 39 00:02:26,070 --> 00:02:25,060 sort of trouble from within and we're 40 00:02:32,250 --> 00:02:26,080 going to talk about some of those things 41 00:02:33,059 --> 00:02:32,260 tonight and also get into really looking 42 00:02:35,580 --> 00:02:33,069 at an end 43 00:02:38,690 --> 00:02:35,590 lowering if MUFON is even relevant in 44 00:02:41,970 --> 00:02:38,700 2018 and where it sort of sits in 45 00:02:43,709 --> 00:02:41,980 modern-day UFO research so I'm really 46 00:02:45,929 --> 00:02:43,719 excited to dive into this some of this 47 00:02:47,009 --> 00:02:45,939 stuff so let's lay that some of the 48 00:02:48,959 --> 00:02:47,019 groundwork first 49 00:02:51,869 --> 00:02:48,969 and Ryan I'd love for you to jump in 50 00:02:54,449 --> 00:02:51,879 here and help me because it was sort of 51 00:02:57,990 --> 00:02:54,459 fortuitous and you know a happy 52 00:03:01,080 --> 00:02:58,000 coincidence that today April 29th 53 00:03:04,739 --> 00:03:01,090 Newsweek published an article on this 54 00:03:08,580 --> 00:03:04,749 very topic talking about some of the 55 00:03:12,179 --> 00:03:08,590 problems with MUFON and you know this is 56 00:03:14,759 --> 00:03:12,189 a really stems from one individual and 57 00:03:16,649 --> 00:03:14,769 comments he made back in 2017 58 00:03:18,629 --> 00:03:16,659 so Ryan if you would you want to set 59 00:03:21,420 --> 00:03:18,639 that up for us yeah absolutely so I 60 00:03:24,059 --> 00:03:21,430 think was about a month ago when I 61 00:03:26,789 --> 00:03:24,069 personally I interviewed dr. Chris 62 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:26,799 Cogswell who became the new director of 63 00:03:33,119 --> 00:03:30,310 research for MUFON a really awesome guy 64 00:03:36,449 --> 00:03:33,129 you know on the younger side actually 65 00:03:39,449 --> 00:03:36,459 has a PhD and was really excited to 66 00:03:42,509 --> 00:03:39,459 start working for MUFON and bring that 67 00:03:44,460 --> 00:03:42,519 scientific approach that MUFON always 68 00:03:47,789 --> 00:03:44,470 says that is a part of their mission 69 00:03:49,830 --> 00:03:47,799 bring that to the forefront and Chris 70 00:03:52,619 --> 00:03:49,840 had all these amazing ideas of what to 71 00:03:54,869 --> 00:03:52,629 do and to peer review everything all the 72 00:03:59,129 --> 00:03:54,879 reports that came in and get a core 73 00:04:00,689 --> 00:03:59,139 group of academics and historians and 74 00:04:04,199 --> 00:04:00,699 scientists to come together and really 75 00:04:06,659 --> 00:04:04,209 shake things up and move on so I was 76 00:04:09,869 --> 00:04:06,669 excited I was back on the MUFON you know 77 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:09,879 board I was ready to to be a fanboy 78 00:04:17,310 --> 00:04:12,970 again and then a couple months later I 79 00:04:20,670 --> 00:04:17,320 found out that Chris resigned out of out 80 00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:20,680 of the blue and we came to find out that 81 00:04:26,219 --> 00:04:23,590 this was because of what had happened 82 00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:26,229 what was it maybe six months prior with 83 00:04:32,700 --> 00:04:29,680 the event with one of the the state 84 00:04:35,939 --> 00:04:32,710 directors of MUFON a a Facebook post 85 00:04:40,620 --> 00:04:35,949 that he made a very controversial racist 86 00:04:42,659 --> 00:04:40,630 post as it were and and like you said 87 00:04:45,629 --> 00:04:42,669 Jason it was very fortuitous that today 88 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:45,639 a article came out in Newsweek 89 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:48,610 where Chris was featured former state 90 00:04:52,860 --> 00:04:50,530 directors of MUFON were featured the 91 00:04:54,330 --> 00:04:52,870 executive director and the person in 92 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:54,340 question were all featured in this 93 00:05:00,330 --> 00:04:57,370 article about about the event that had 94 00:05:03,209 --> 00:05:00,340 happened and how it was handled by MUFON 95 00:05:06,659 --> 00:05:03,219 the organization so yeah how I got 96 00:05:08,269 --> 00:05:06,669 involved I was contacted by the 97 00:05:11,999 --> 00:05:08,279 gentleman who wrote the Newsweek article 98 00:05:15,300 --> 00:05:12,009 just for my thoughts on racism within 99 00:05:17,369 --> 00:05:15,310 the UFO community within the you know 100 00:05:20,850 --> 00:05:17,379 the field as it were and I gave some 101 00:05:22,529 --> 00:05:20,860 some of my thoughts but I was more I was 102 00:05:24,869 --> 00:05:22,539 actually more excited to hear that they 103 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:24,879 had talked to actual MUFON members about 104 00:05:29,010 --> 00:05:27,370 this and their thoughts on it so that's 105 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:29,020 kind of the whole snowball effect that 106 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:31,330 this entire event had I don't know if 107 00:05:35,159 --> 00:05:32,770 you want me to be specific about what 108 00:05:38,579 --> 00:05:35,169 was said by this gentleman but I'm sure 109 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:38,589 we'll get into that so yeah well since 110 00:05:42,809 --> 00:05:41,050 that's sort of sort of yeah what would 111 00:05:44,610 --> 00:05:42,819 really spawned a lot of the the 112 00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:44,620 attention and and some of the the main 113 00:05:48,420 --> 00:05:46,089 issues that have come up and certainly 114 00:05:50,850 --> 00:05:48,430 was the focus of the Newsweek article 115 00:05:53,570 --> 00:05:50,860 yeah why don't you go ahead and go into 116 00:05:55,890 --> 00:05:53,580 that a little bit yes so I mean the the 117 00:05:57,990 --> 00:05:55,900 person in question I mean we can name 118 00:06:00,420 --> 00:05:58,000 him at this point this was John venture 119 00:06:03,269 --> 00:06:00,430 he was a state director for MUFON 120 00:06:06,420 --> 00:06:03,279 Pennsylvania made a very controversial 121 00:06:09,209 --> 00:06:06,430 post on his personal Facebook page that 122 00:06:12,119 --> 00:06:09,219 is worth mentioning here about white 123 00:06:14,550 --> 00:06:12,129 genocide something the the alt-right the 124 00:06:17,879 --> 00:06:14,560 far-right get likes to use to their 125 00:06:19,050 --> 00:06:17,889 advantage in their rhetoric and and it 126 00:06:23,159 --> 00:06:19,060 really took a lot of people by surprise 127 00:06:25,379 --> 00:06:23,169 I mean we I never had seen him say 128 00:06:27,719 --> 00:06:25,389 anything like this before but it really 129 00:06:30,929 --> 00:06:27,729 took a lot of people by surprise and it 130 00:06:33,029 --> 00:06:30,939 started getting shared and shared and a 131 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:33,039 lot of people were really offended and 132 00:06:38,339 --> 00:06:36,849 you know everyone started saying okay 133 00:06:40,019 --> 00:06:38,349 what are they gonna do about this they 134 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:40,029 got a fire they dude they got to get rid 135 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:43,210 of him any institution or organization I 136 00:06:48,149 --> 00:06:45,610 think would do that if they saw that one 137 00:06:51,059 --> 00:06:48,159 of their members was posting disgusting 138 00:06:52,709 --> 00:06:51,069 revolting things like this and that's 139 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:52,719 not exactly how it was handled by the 140 00:06:58,230 --> 00:06:55,330 organization so I think that's where the 141 00:07:00,180 --> 00:06:58,240 real problem stemmed is the the 142 00:07:03,779 --> 00:07:00,190 racist rant aside it's how it was 143 00:07:07,290 --> 00:07:03,789 handled and dealt with and very little I 144 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:07,300 guess you know punishment was was done 145 00:07:13,439 --> 00:07:10,930 in terms of this so yeah yeah it's it's 146 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:13,449 convoluted it's messy as these things 147 00:07:18,150 --> 00:07:15,970 often are but this Newsweek article I 148 00:07:20,460 --> 00:07:18,160 think has really shed a good light on it 149 00:07:22,830 --> 00:07:20,470 and this is the consequence of what 150 00:07:24,390 --> 00:07:22,840 happens when you don't deal with it it 151 00:07:26,490 --> 00:07:24,400 starts going to the mainstream press and 152 00:07:30,629 --> 00:07:26,500 I think this isn't the last we're gonna 153 00:07:33,629 --> 00:07:30,639 see of it for sure well and yeah the the 154 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:33,639 title of this article is called wood it 155 00:07:38,010 --> 00:07:36,130 says what if aliens met racists move on 156 00:07:39,930 --> 00:07:38,020 resignations highlight internal 157 00:07:43,110 --> 00:07:39,940 divisions and UFO sighting organization 158 00:07:44,790 --> 00:07:43,120 yeah I mean that's not good press that 159 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:44,800 is not good press when they say all the 160 00:07:48,469 --> 00:07:46,810 press is good for us this certainly 161 00:07:50,309 --> 00:07:48,479 isn't the case I mean we've seen so many 162 00:07:53,249 --> 00:07:50,319 resignations with a new phone in the 163 00:07:55,469 --> 00:07:53,259 past God you know since this happened 164 00:07:58,350 --> 00:07:55,479 major major people who've been with the 165 00:07:59,999 --> 00:07:58,360 organization for decades and decades and 166 00:08:02,310 --> 00:08:00,009 it isn't just this one 167 00:08:05,189 --> 00:08:02,320 it's Vint I I'd like to add that as well 168 00:08:07,709 --> 00:08:05,199 I mean this has been a problem within 169 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:07,719 the organization for a while not only 170 00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:10,750 racism but you know misogyny sexist and 171 00:08:15,659 --> 00:08:13,150 all these things have come up and what's 172 00:08:18,180 --> 00:08:15,669 often considered a boys club so I'm 173 00:08:20,159 --> 00:08:18,190 happy these things are getting out there 174 00:08:22,830 --> 00:08:20,169 and exposed it's extremely sad and 175 00:08:24,450 --> 00:08:22,840 disheartening but if it's not exposed 176 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:24,460 then it's never gonna change so that's 177 00:08:29,459 --> 00:08:26,530 kind of where I left it with the the 178 00:08:33,540 --> 00:08:29,469 article that came out today well and to 179 00:08:35,430 --> 00:08:33,550 be fair we'll read John Venturi's 180 00:08:38,690 --> 00:08:35,440 comment because he was quick to comment 181 00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:38,700 on the Newsweek article and he posted 182 00:08:42,630 --> 00:08:40,690 sensationalizing old news seems 183 00:08:45,329 --> 00:08:42,640 desperate and vindictive to me 184 00:08:48,750 --> 00:08:45,339 I only responded one time to a potential 185 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:48,760 hate crime and later apologized this is 186 00:08:53,699 --> 00:08:51,370 free speech my post was on my personal 187 00:08:55,230 --> 00:08:53,709 page and not on my move on Pennsylvania 188 00:08:57,990 --> 00:08:55,240 page because it had nothing to do with 189 00:09:01,170 --> 00:08:58,000 UFOs there is a very vindictive agenda 190 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:01,180 here I'm glad I'm above all that which 191 00:09:05,010 --> 00:09:02,890 I've demonstrated for years through my 192 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:05,020 charitable giving and volunteerism to 193 00:09:09,540 --> 00:09:06,970 many local charities you should judge 194 00:09:11,650 --> 00:09:09,550 someone by what they do not what they 195 00:09:16,380 --> 00:09:11,660 say one time in anger 196 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:16,390 shame on you and certainly a lot of 197 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:19,610 venturi supporters have gone on and you 198 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:21,290 know have have voiced their support for 199 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:22,850 John and saying that in their 200 00:09:26,830 --> 00:09:24,410 interaction with John they've never seen 201 00:09:28,330 --> 00:09:26,840 him be anything but wonderful and you 202 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:28,340 know John's a very charming guy I mean I 203 00:09:34,390 --> 00:09:31,010 was on hangar 1 with John you know and 204 00:09:37,450 --> 00:09:34,400 that really you know people need to I 205 00:09:40,090 --> 00:09:37,460 think not be quick to dismiss things 206 00:09:42,130 --> 00:09:40,100 just because you've met somebody and 207 00:09:43,300 --> 00:09:42,140 they seem nice I mean you have to kinda 208 00:09:46,180 --> 00:09:43,310 take everything they do 209 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:46,190 so it's you know John's comment about 210 00:09:50,950 --> 00:09:48,290 you have to judge people by what they do 211 00:09:53,530 --> 00:09:50,960 on what you say is kind of you know what 212 00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:53,540 you do that's part of what you do yeah 213 00:09:59,470 --> 00:09:56,570 yeah I mean again I think every morning 214 00:10:01,960 --> 00:09:59,480 the the whole idea of you know free 215 00:10:04,420 --> 00:10:01,970 speech this is something that venture 216 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:04,430 had been touting was you know it's my 217 00:10:07,540 --> 00:10:06,290 Facebook page and free speech but we all 218 00:10:09,940 --> 00:10:07,550 know free speech comes with consequences 219 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:09,950 and I think that's kind of where we're 220 00:10:17,010 --> 00:10:12,290 at right now so that's all I wanted to 221 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:18,610 especially when you're a public figure 222 00:10:23,890 --> 00:10:22,610 you have to have it take action you know 223 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:23,900 take account for what you're saying 224 00:10:29,140 --> 00:10:26,930 because people are looking up to you who 225 00:10:30,910 --> 00:10:29,150 are in different positions and if you're 226 00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:30,920 you know kind of spewing this kind of 227 00:10:33,850 --> 00:10:32,000 stuff it doesn't matter if it's on your 228 00:10:36,610 --> 00:10:33,860 personal page you're accountable for 229 00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:36,620 what you say and he instead of doing 230 00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:39,440 that was very dismissive and defensive 231 00:10:44,290 --> 00:10:42,320 of you know what he's trying to say and 232 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:44,300 try to make it off like it wasn't a big 233 00:10:47,950 --> 00:10:46,010 deal but it was I mean I immediately 234 00:10:50,050 --> 00:10:47,960 unfriended him because personally I 235 00:10:53,410 --> 00:10:50,060 don't want to see that people say Matt 236 00:10:56,890 --> 00:10:53,420 nesto horrible and it's rampant in this 237 00:10:58,840 --> 00:10:56,900 industry yeah and I mean looking at it 238 00:11:01,050 --> 00:10:58,850 MUFON as a whole you know we talked 239 00:11:03,550 --> 00:11:01,060 about some some issues and some some 240 00:11:06,610 --> 00:11:03,560 problems that the organization has had 241 00:11:10,630 --> 00:11:06,620 over the years simply because you know 242 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:10,640 in my opinion certainly it is a large 243 00:11:15,370 --> 00:11:13,130 organization I mean it's a huge national 244 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:15,380 organization but it's also international 245 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:17,810 and it's largely volunteer based and 246 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:20,330 you've got you know chapter after 247 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:22,370 Chapter after Chapter all around the 248 00:11:27,790 --> 00:11:25,370 country run by different 249 00:11:30,970 --> 00:11:27,800 while different individuals and there's 250 00:11:32,410 --> 00:11:30,980 really not and you know blaming a lack 251 00:11:34,780 --> 00:11:32,420 of resources or whatever but there 252 00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:34,790 really is lack of sort of central 253 00:11:39,810 --> 00:11:37,040 organization and central control so 254 00:11:43,570 --> 00:11:39,820 you'll have one chapter of this 255 00:11:45,940 --> 00:11:43,580 scientific based organization you know 256 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:45,950 very focused in all of their meetings 257 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:48,050 and and what they're telling people on 258 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:49,970 things that are not at all based in 259 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:53,450 science you know are very focused on you 260 00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:55,250 know a lot of crystal healing and you 261 00:12:00,250 --> 00:11:57,920 know sort of the new agey type stuff or 262 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:00,260 you know just a lot of what's really 263 00:12:05,290 --> 00:12:02,210 considered the far fringes of UFO 264 00:12:07,450 --> 00:12:05,300 research and then you have some chapters 265 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:07,460 that are very focused on the science on 266 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:09,410 the investigation and doing some 267 00:12:13,060 --> 00:12:11,690 fantastic work and Shane I'd love to 268 00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:13,070 bring you in the conversation because 269 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:15,440 you are a member of MUFON and an 270 00:12:19,870 --> 00:12:17,810 investigator here at Phoenix move on so 271 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:19,880 I'd love to get your thoughts on your 272 00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:22,310 experience with MUFON and certainly your 273 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:24,710 your your you know what you thought of 274 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:28,970 being part of MUFON so far yeah I thanks 275 00:12:33,730 --> 00:12:31,250 for that Jason and yeah full disclosure 276 00:12:36,699 --> 00:12:33,740 I'm not only a member but I am a field 277 00:12:40,570 --> 00:12:36,709 investigator have been so for about a 278 00:12:42,340 --> 00:12:40,580 year I'm in the Phoenix branch are you 279 00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:42,350 happen to believe it is one of the 280 00:12:48,519 --> 00:12:44,480 better branches very focused and 281 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:48,529 scientific oriented and my experience 282 00:12:53,140 --> 00:12:49,910 have been nothing but positive 283 00:12:56,050 --> 00:12:53,150 all of the people leadership fellow 284 00:12:59,980 --> 00:12:56,060 investigators very heads-up people 285 00:13:02,790 --> 00:12:59,990 focused we don't really go down the path 286 00:13:05,530 --> 00:13:02,800 of what we call the woowoo kind of stuff 287 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:05,540 you know we try and stick to stick to 288 00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:07,010 the facts and of course I don't claim to 289 00:13:12,610 --> 00:13:09,680 be a scientist by any means but an 290 00:13:15,370 --> 00:13:12,620 investigator and somebody who collects 291 00:13:17,769 --> 00:13:15,380 facts and data and compiles that in a 292 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:17,779 way that you know it can be used by a 293 00:13:23,079 --> 00:13:20,930 scientist so and then the other thing I 294 00:13:25,510 --> 00:13:23,089 guess I could say as well as that there 295 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:25,520 is sort of a differentiation between the 296 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:28,370 local chapters and the national so I've 297 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:29,930 only had a little experience on a 298 00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:33,010 national basis mainly through the 299 00:13:37,510 --> 00:13:36,320 symposiums or training bulletins that 300 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:37,520 kind of thing 301 00:13:42,970 --> 00:13:40,370 and also I did have the privilege of 302 00:13:46,030 --> 00:13:42,980 being associated with Chris earlier 303 00:13:48,130 --> 00:13:46,040 right before he resigned and was going 304 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:48,140 to participate in some really cool 305 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:50,510 projects so that was was really 306 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:53,330 disappointing but completely respect his 307 00:13:59,019 --> 00:13:57,050 decision to part ways when you when you 308 00:14:02,290 --> 00:13:59,029 act on conscience you just can't 309 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:02,300 criticize anyone for that at all and 310 00:14:07,690 --> 00:14:04,730 Ryan you you recently interviewed Chris 311 00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:07,700 and isn't he now that he's resigned 312 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:09,440 isn't he going to be starting his own 313 00:14:14,590 --> 00:14:11,690 organization yes yes he's starting a 314 00:14:17,079 --> 00:14:14,600 coalition I think this is great because 315 00:14:19,810 --> 00:14:17,089 again he was really going to change 316 00:14:21,910 --> 00:14:19,820 things from fine I I honestly believe 317 00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:21,920 that no that's not to say that I don't 318 00:14:24,070 --> 00:14:23,600 think MUFON is going to continue to do 319 00:14:26,769 --> 00:14:24,080 great work 320 00:14:28,449 --> 00:14:26,779 like like Shane said I have so many 321 00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:28,459 colleagues and good friends who are 322 00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:30,800 still state directors and researchers 323 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:32,959 from move on and that's amazing they're 324 00:14:37,870 --> 00:14:35,330 all doing like Shane said their own work 325 00:14:39,639 --> 00:14:37,880 in their own branches and that's great 326 00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:39,649 the real problem stems with the higher 327 00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:41,839 ups I believe and I think that's what 328 00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:43,910 Chris really recognized and realized 329 00:14:48,730 --> 00:14:45,680 that he wasn't being told the truth 330 00:14:51,310 --> 00:14:48,740 about how this this incident was handled 331 00:14:52,810 --> 00:14:51,320 so he got out you know what why waste 332 00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:52,820 your time with an organization that 333 00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:56,000 can't be fully transparent and truthful 334 00:15:01,060 --> 00:14:59,120 with you so Chris wanted to keep doing 335 00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:01,070 the work he knew a lot of people were 336 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:03,529 coming on him myself included to really 337 00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:06,290 bring that scientific approach back to 338 00:15:11,730 --> 00:15:09,440 ufology and so yeah as far as I know 339 00:15:14,650 --> 00:15:11,740 he's working on getting a group of 340 00:15:17,740 --> 00:15:14,660 scientists academics researchers 341 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:17,750 historians psychologists everything you 342 00:15:21,730 --> 00:15:19,730 can think of that somehow is 343 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:21,740 intrinsically linked to the UFO topic 344 00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:23,690 study phenomenon 345 00:15:28,660 --> 00:15:25,910 get them all together peer review 346 00:15:31,930 --> 00:15:28,670 everything and you know make their own 347 00:15:34,810 --> 00:15:31,940 educated reports not not so much 348 00:15:38,110 --> 00:15:34,820 conclusions but um yeah it sounds really 349 00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:38,120 exciting it sounds a lot more heavy 350 00:15:43,540 --> 00:15:40,399 heavy hitting than I think a lot of the 351 00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:43,550 fun reports often are and I'm excited 352 00:15:47,740 --> 00:15:44,800 I'm excited to see where it goes 353 00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:47,750 hopefully someday they can share 354 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:49,310 information with one another 355 00:15:54,010 --> 00:15:51,410 whatever Kristen's up doing and move on 356 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:54,020 and we can get past all this again I 357 00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:57,170 think this needs to be the press that 358 00:16:02,920 --> 00:15:59,360 move on gifts right now or else it's 359 00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:02,930 gonna keep happening so I wish Chris the 360 00:16:07,210 --> 00:16:05,360 best of luck with his organization and I 361 00:16:09,070 --> 00:16:07,220 still wish she would fund the best but 362 00:16:14,860 --> 00:16:09,080 yeah I'm excited to see what Chris does 363 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:14,870 for short so you know I there have been 364 00:16:20,740 --> 00:16:17,930 a lot of people in recent years and 365 00:16:22,210 --> 00:16:20,750 certainly since the sort of exodus from 366 00:16:24,340 --> 00:16:22,220 MUFON by a lot of people and a lot of 367 00:16:26,950 --> 00:16:24,350 the leadership people starting their own 368 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:26,960 groups they're you know going going 369 00:16:29,950 --> 00:16:27,890 going it alone 370 00:16:33,370 --> 00:16:29,960 Erika Luke's is certainly one of those 371 00:16:36,820 --> 00:16:33,380 people I mean even Lesley Kahne you know 372 00:16:40,079 --> 00:16:36,830 is you know joined you know groups to 373 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:40,089 you know go it alone and focus on 374 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:42,170 specific aspects of scientific research 375 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:46,130 when it comes to UFOs so my question to 376 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:49,130 our table here is you know certainly 377 00:16:55,030 --> 00:16:52,910 it's got to be extremely challenging you 378 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:55,040 know when you're going from a large 379 00:16:59,680 --> 00:16:57,650 organization like move on to a small 380 00:17:02,790 --> 00:16:59,690 team of you know two or three or four 381 00:17:05,100 --> 00:17:02,800 people you know your resources are fewer 382 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:05,110 MUFON has this huge network of 383 00:17:09,370 --> 00:17:07,250 investigators you know that's a valuable 384 00:17:13,329 --> 00:17:09,380 resource and something that no one else 385 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:13,339 frankly can match so what do you guys 386 00:17:17,290 --> 00:17:15,290 see is being the the biggest challenges 387 00:17:19,210 --> 00:17:17,300 to people trying to start their own 388 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:19,220 organization focused on UFOs from 389 00:17:27,460 --> 00:17:25,970 scratch so I think that a big problem 390 00:17:30,010 --> 00:17:27,470 again like you said it's resources 391 00:17:30,940 --> 00:17:30,020 limited resources and money and people 392 00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:30,950 that are starting their own 393 00:17:35,650 --> 00:17:33,950 organizations are often not able to come 394 00:17:37,870 --> 00:17:35,660 up with enough funds buy all the 395 00:17:40,990 --> 00:17:37,880 necessary equipment or you know uh 396 00:17:43,419 --> 00:17:41,000 things they need to actually be able to 397 00:17:45,610 --> 00:17:43,429 do scientific investigations and the 398 00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:45,620 problem too is you know MUFON worked 399 00:17:49,540 --> 00:17:47,840 really hard well I'm sure we'll get into 400 00:17:51,730 --> 00:17:49,550 the big little stuff later with where 401 00:17:55,020 --> 00:17:51,740 the money came from for the Rapid 402 00:17:57,790 --> 00:17:55,030 Response Team star and a lot of UFO 403 00:17:59,770 --> 00:17:57,800 investigations obviously timing is 404 00:18:01,169 --> 00:17:59,780 critical and if you have the problem 405 00:18:02,980 --> 00:18:01,179 where you have a very small organization 406 00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:02,990 located in 407 00:18:07,150 --> 00:18:05,600 not very many spots and you have an 408 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:07,160 amazing case happen that you're not able 409 00:18:13,630 --> 00:18:08,210 to get there right away 410 00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:13,640 you could miss crucial you know bits of 411 00:18:18,850 --> 00:18:16,310 evidence that would really highlight the 412 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:18,860 case and I think that all these little 413 00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:21,650 small groups working separately that's 414 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:24,710 where an issue comes in where you're 415 00:18:30,430 --> 00:18:27,290 divided and it's harder to collect as 416 00:18:33,610 --> 00:18:30,440 much information and it may like you 417 00:18:36,010 --> 00:18:33,620 know pin up water the information down 418 00:18:39,810 --> 00:18:36,020 in terms of collecting a bigger database 419 00:18:43,060 --> 00:18:39,820 of info but again the problem it's 420 00:18:45,420 --> 00:18:43,070 arises with of monopolies organization 421 00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:45,430 as well where you have to be a certain 422 00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:48,080 part of a certain organization in order 423 00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:50,420 to access information and have this come 424 00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:53,840 out so you know we even Jason I talked 425 00:18:58,780 --> 00:18:56,480 about in the past starting a self 426 00:19:03,000 --> 00:18:58,790 organization to get more young people in 427 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:03,010 because MUFON tends to be older 428 00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:05,330 male-dominated you know and we wanted to 429 00:19:08,650 --> 00:19:07,280 try to do something different but but 430 00:19:10,270 --> 00:19:08,660 then we said you know what there's just 431 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:10,280 too many groups starting up this doesn't 432 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:11,930 make sense so we're not going to do it 433 00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:14,290 and we didn't have the funds or research 434 00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:17,150 resources to create something that would 435 00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:19,430 be viable to actually make a difference 436 00:19:25,050 --> 00:19:21,710 anyway so and we're not saying you're 437 00:19:31,090 --> 00:19:28,630 no no not at hard anyway no but whenever 438 00:19:32,940 --> 00:19:31,100 I see posted photos with grandkids I'm 439 00:19:38,140 --> 00:19:32,950 like you gotta be kidding me 440 00:19:39,580 --> 00:19:38,150 yeah yeah they keep me up ya know I you 441 00:19:41,950 --> 00:19:39,590 know that's a good point to when you 442 00:19:46,030 --> 00:19:41,960 look at MUFON obviously before I joined 443 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:46,040 I had been you know researching UFOs on 444 00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:48,050 my own for quite some period of time but 445 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:49,460 then it you know it got to the point 446 00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:51,410 where I'm like wow I don't want to just 447 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:53,510 consume the information I'm gonna play 448 00:19:58,900 --> 00:19:56,930 I'm gonna participate and for me MUFON 449 00:20:01,240 --> 00:19:58,910 made sense and that it was a structured 450 00:20:03,490 --> 00:20:01,250 organization and whatever effort 451 00:20:06,610 --> 00:20:03,500 presumably you put forth you know could 452 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:06,620 accomplish something and so I think you 453 00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:10,490 know an organization like MUFON can and 454 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:13,160 should exist from the standpoint it's 455 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:15,650 almost like infrastructure for a country 456 00:20:18,340 --> 00:20:16,370 you know 457 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:18,350 you have highways and an electrical grid 458 00:20:23,020 --> 00:20:20,570 and you have water and sewer systems and 459 00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:23,030 these things make it possible for that 460 00:20:29,530 --> 00:20:26,240 that society to operate well really if 461 00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:29,540 you follow jeez a society MUFON is kind 462 00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:31,280 of like that infrastructure it's a place 463 00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:33,710 where this information can be collected 464 00:20:38,410 --> 00:20:36,080 in an organized way it can be you know 465 00:20:40,510 --> 00:20:38,420 aggregated and categorized and it can be 466 00:20:43,060 --> 00:20:40,520 processed in a way that then it can be 467 00:20:46,030 --> 00:20:43,070 scientifically studied so and then made 468 00:20:48,669 --> 00:20:46,040 available for people to see the results 469 00:20:51,220 --> 00:20:48,679 so from that perspective I think the the 470 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:51,230 premise is great the problem is it's 471 00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:53,330 just like any organization it's made up 472 00:20:58,720 --> 00:20:55,910 of people and people make mistakes and 473 00:21:00,820 --> 00:20:58,730 you know you're gonna have positives and 474 00:21:03,370 --> 00:21:00,830 you're gonna have negatives and and so 475 00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:03,380 you just want to make sure I think in my 476 00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:04,940 point of view why I haven't really 477 00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:06,710 resigned or anything at this point is 478 00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:08,480 you know the positives are still 479 00:21:13,690 --> 00:21:10,640 outweigh in the negatives so I'm still 480 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:13,700 gonna participate I mean I'm hoping in 481 00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:15,170 time that you know 482 00:21:19,810 --> 00:21:16,880 MUFON leadership will make the right 483 00:21:23,230 --> 00:21:19,820 decision obviously what's happened is is 484 00:21:25,660 --> 00:21:23,240 completely unacceptable on this day and 485 00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:25,670 age there's no place for racism as far 486 00:21:29,260 --> 00:21:27,440 as I'm concerned there's only one race 487 00:21:31,870 --> 00:21:29,270 the human race why are we treating each 488 00:21:34,510 --> 00:21:31,880 other any other way is unbelievable so 489 00:21:36,730 --> 00:21:34,520 that but that thinking is out there and 490 00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:36,740 it's common and that's a sad thing but 491 00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:39,200 you know bringing issues up in this way 492 00:21:43,690 --> 00:21:42,320 like we are like that Newsweek article I 493 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:43,700 mean those are the things are gonna help 494 00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:46,130 correct that I think something you said 495 00:21:51,850 --> 00:21:49,760 was really good earlier Ryan was that or 496 00:21:54,820 --> 00:21:51,860 maiming marine was that when somebody 497 00:21:57,100 --> 00:21:54,830 acts in a certain way they should be 498 00:21:59,140 --> 00:21:57,110 held accountable and responsible for 499 00:22:00,910 --> 00:21:59,150 those actions you know and that's really 500 00:22:02,650 --> 00:22:00,920 what we're looking at here is you know a 501 00:22:07,630 --> 00:22:02,660 person an individual it's done this 502 00:22:08,860 --> 00:22:07,640 inflex badly on so many sadly but you 503 00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:08,870 know that's what needs to be corrected 504 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:12,710 is you know that situation so that being 505 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:16,610 said I I guess you already answered the 506 00:22:22,450 --> 00:22:19,130 question what to do do you guys feel 507 00:22:24,370 --> 00:22:22,460 that there's hope for move on can't move 508 00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:24,380 on get back on track and become the 509 00:22:29,980 --> 00:22:27,280 organization that we all want it to be I 510 00:22:33,130 --> 00:22:29,990 feel like that questions been asks 511 00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:33,140 big times throughout the decades but 512 00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:35,919 Jason that's a really good question I 513 00:22:40,450 --> 00:22:38,510 I've seen so many people saying oh this 514 00:22:43,659 --> 00:22:40,460 is the nail in the coffin like this 515 00:22:46,419 --> 00:22:43,669 isn't you know once this this incident 516 00:22:48,220 --> 00:22:46,429 goes mainstream like they're done but we 517 00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:48,230 all know that's not gonna be the case 518 00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:50,240 hopefully there will be an overhaul 519 00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:51,950 within the board of directors and 520 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:54,230 whatnot to deal with situations like 521 00:22:59,470 --> 00:22:56,330 this maybe there will be stricter 522 00:23:02,560 --> 00:22:59,480 protocol or new things implemented which 523 00:23:04,779 --> 00:23:02,570 is all like you know I'm again I'm not a 524 00:23:06,730 --> 00:23:04,789 member that's all I would want if I was 525 00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:06,740 a part of the organization is like 526 00:23:10,810 --> 00:23:09,440 something some sort of protocol for 527 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:10,820 situations like this 528 00:23:15,930 --> 00:23:13,370 I mean the executive director was 529 00:23:18,279 --> 00:23:15,940 deleting comments from people 530 00:23:19,389 --> 00:23:18,289 criticizing what happened I mean that 531 00:23:22,330 --> 00:23:19,399 that's just not a way to handle 532 00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:22,340 something like this so again I think Jan 533 00:23:27,010 --> 00:23:24,080 Carson has done some really amazing 534 00:23:30,220 --> 00:23:27,020 things for the organization this was not 535 00:23:32,889 --> 00:23:30,230 one of them but I think he he's done a 536 00:23:36,639 --> 00:23:32,899 lot for the organization and I hope hope 537 00:23:38,830 --> 00:23:36,649 hope that they can move past this and 538 00:23:42,010 --> 00:23:38,840 like Shane said there's so many 539 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:42,020 hard-working investigators out there 540 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:44,090 using their own resources and their own 541 00:23:48,399 --> 00:23:46,850 money to do these investigations so I 542 00:23:50,769 --> 00:23:48,409 think we have to keep that in mind there 543 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:50,779 are hundreds and hundreds of individuals 544 00:23:55,450 --> 00:23:53,690 who are not racists who are not bigots 545 00:23:59,380 --> 00:23:55,460 who are not sexist within the 546 00:24:01,810 --> 00:23:59,390 organization and and that's that's what 547 00:24:04,690 --> 00:24:01,820 we need again like you don't want a 548 00:24:06,639 --> 00:24:04,700 racist investigator going out in 549 00:24:09,070 --> 00:24:06,649 investigating something with such a 550 00:24:11,289 --> 00:24:09,080 vulnerable witness who may not happen to 551 00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:11,299 be the same ethnicity as they are or 552 00:24:17,889 --> 00:24:15,289 gender as they are so maybe some sort of 553 00:24:19,389 --> 00:24:17,899 vetting would be a good way to go in 554 00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:19,399 terms of that I don't know what that 555 00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:21,470 would look like in terms of a protocol 556 00:24:26,919 --> 00:24:25,039 but I think if MUFON sticks with their 557 00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:26,929 mission of being a scientific 558 00:24:32,289 --> 00:24:29,600 organization to benefit humanity and 559 00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:32,299 educate humanity that's where we have to 560 00:24:36,970 --> 00:24:34,580 get back to so yeah I do think MUFON is 561 00:24:39,039 --> 00:24:36,980 gonna keep going and I think they're 562 00:24:40,990 --> 00:24:39,049 gonna do some incredible things but this 563 00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:41,000 is kind of a dark time and when you're 564 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:42,780 in those darkest moments think 565 00:24:46,460 --> 00:24:44,490 when you really have to look at what's 566 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:46,470 going on and reflect on it and move 567 00:24:51,290 --> 00:24:48,330 forward so again that's just that's my 568 00:24:54,590 --> 00:24:51,300 opinion yeah I don't really think they 569 00:24:56,660 --> 00:24:54,600 need some new blood injected as well 570 00:24:58,760 --> 00:24:56,670 into the organization different 571 00:25:00,530 --> 00:24:58,770 viewpoints and and again it's like it's 572 00:25:03,410 --> 00:25:00,540 kind of a money issue where it's a 573 00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,420 nonprofit organization the funnies gotta 574 00:25:09,140 --> 00:25:05,760 come from somewhere and some of these 575 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:09,150 people who maybe are not is good for the 576 00:25:13,550 --> 00:25:10,850 organization as we would like are 577 00:25:16,190 --> 00:25:13,560 offering up the greenbacks and that's 578 00:25:18,290 --> 00:25:16,200 where it's really hard for probably the 579 00:25:19,550 --> 00:25:18,300 leadership to determine what to do and 580 00:25:21,290 --> 00:25:19,560 how to handle it best because they're 581 00:25:27,620 --> 00:25:21,300 worried about losing those funds as well 582 00:25:30,980 --> 00:25:27,630 sure that's a tricky nonprofit world and 583 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:30,990 I would like to point out for for people 584 00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:33,090 listening and and think that this sounds 585 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:35,550 all doom and gloom talking about MUFON 586 00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:38,010 and how it you know drags us all down 587 00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:40,110 and makes you UFO you you have a 588 00:25:46,940 --> 00:25:43,440 research look bad you know we find it's 589 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:46,950 very common in the UFO field for you 590 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:48,810 know people to worry about the 591 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:51,690 reputation of UFOs or the reputation of 592 00:25:56,570 --> 00:25:54,690 ufology and I always try to tell people 593 00:25:59,150 --> 00:25:56,580 you don't need to worry about it like 594 00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:59,160 it's always gonna be there it is what it 595 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:01,200 is if the evidence is as strong as we 596 00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:02,970 all believe it is it's gonna be just 597 00:26:09,050 --> 00:26:05,760 fine things are gonna come and go 598 00:26:11,630 --> 00:26:09,060 bad news is gonna happen bad bad eggs 599 00:26:13,070 --> 00:26:11,640 are gonna happen but just keep doing 600 00:26:15,470 --> 00:26:13,080 what you're doing and don't worry about 601 00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:15,480 that we feel a need to belong and be 602 00:26:20,930 --> 00:26:18,000 part of groups and things so you know 603 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:20,940 III understand you know how it benefits 604 00:26:26,660 --> 00:26:23,610 UFO research to have groups to be part 605 00:26:28,130 --> 00:26:26,670 of groups because they provide you know 606 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:28,140 the support the resources the other 607 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:30,570 things that you need to further your 608 00:26:36,110 --> 00:26:33,450 personal investigation and research but 609 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:36,120 and those are all great things but you 610 00:26:42,530 --> 00:26:38,370 don't need to be part of a group you 611 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:42,540 don't need to have the approval of some 612 00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:47,810 larger real or invisible or pretend 613 00:26:55,250 --> 00:26:51,120 community to further your own research 614 00:26:58,820 --> 00:26:55,260 to do what you're doing within the UFO 615 00:27:01,610 --> 00:26:58,830 search so I applaud all the people who 616 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:01,620 are in MUFON who are starting their own 617 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:04,410 organizations but you don't need to do 618 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:06,450 that it's okay you can go it alone 619 00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:13,650 that's what I do everyone you know the 620 00:27:18,110 --> 00:27:16,110 the Exopolitics movement are looking for 621 00:27:19,610 --> 00:27:18,120 disclosure you know this is this big 622 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:19,620 grand disclosure that the government's 623 00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:22,410 going to reveal the et presence and for 624 00:27:27,409 --> 00:27:24,510 the people we've all spoken to who've 625 00:27:30,140 --> 00:27:27,419 had sightings or an experience of some 626 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:30,150 sort that is their personal disclosure 627 00:27:34,460 --> 00:27:32,490 and I think that's the most important 628 00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:34,470 thing like disclosure has happened it 629 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:36,480 happens one person at a time and it 630 00:27:40,970 --> 00:27:38,490 happens in whatever way you see fit as 631 00:27:42,860 --> 00:27:40,980 the individual having sightings so I 632 00:27:47,090 --> 00:27:42,870 think you're right I don't think we need 633 00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:47,100 these huge you know it's logos they're 634 00:27:51,890 --> 00:27:49,200 symbols of MUFON or NICAP or 635 00:27:53,930 --> 00:27:51,900 what-have-you like just just do your own 636 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:53,940 thing do it underground do your own 637 00:27:58,490 --> 00:27:56,610 research and come to your own personal 638 00:28:00,860 --> 00:27:58,500 conclusion it's like why let someone 639 00:28:02,990 --> 00:28:00,870 else tell you what you saw when you do 640 00:28:04,460 --> 00:28:03,000 it you go you know and it's awesome when 641 00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:04,470 you find like-minded people absolutely 642 00:28:07,970 --> 00:28:06,480 and we all like to be with people who 643 00:28:09,740 --> 00:28:07,980 are who are like us who have the same 644 00:28:12,740 --> 00:28:09,750 likes and the same ideas and things like 645 00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:12,750 that that's all great but you know at 646 00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:15,600 the same time especially when it comes 647 00:28:20,930 --> 00:28:18,480 to the strange we're all different we 648 00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:20,940 have our own ideas our own personal 649 00:28:25,970 --> 00:28:23,910 experiences our own you know thoughts 650 00:28:28,010 --> 00:28:25,980 and speculation about what certain 651 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:28,020 things mean or what we believe is out 652 00:28:32,930 --> 00:28:30,450 there believe is the cause of this or 653 00:28:35,539 --> 00:28:32,940 you know we're all different we don't 654 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:35,549 agree I mean I would think that very few 655 00:28:41,299 --> 00:28:38,130 of us within the UFO field you know 656 00:28:43,580 --> 00:28:41,309 believe 100% the same as anybody else we 657 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:43,590 are individuals we have our individual 658 00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:45,450 thoughts and ideas about this very 659 00:28:50,510 --> 00:28:49,260 strange nothing so you know people need 660 00:28:53,330 --> 00:28:50,520 to keep that in mind 661 00:28:54,860 --> 00:28:53,340 you always say UFOs is not a religion 662 00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:54,870 even though it kind of is because it's 663 00:28:58,520 --> 00:28:56,640 based on belief it should be treated 664 00:29:00,320 --> 00:28:58,530 like a religion you don't need to 665 00:29:03,140 --> 00:29:00,330 believe everything that certain people 666 00:29:04,580 --> 00:29:03,150 tell you you know think for yourself do 667 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:04,590 your own research make up your own ideas 668 00:29:06,930 --> 00:29:05,850 that's what it's all about 669 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:06,940 yeah and 670 00:29:11,670 --> 00:29:09,010 take another point directly related to 671 00:29:13,410 --> 00:29:11,680 that Jason is we see this all the time 672 00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:13,420 as researchers and investigators if 673 00:29:17,340 --> 00:29:15,430 you're reporting on something like oh 674 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:17,350 you know there might be a possible 675 00:29:23,490 --> 00:29:19,930 microbial life form found on this area 676 00:29:25,380 --> 00:29:23,500 or however the basis and the people that 677 00:29:27,570 --> 00:29:25,390 get mad at you for reporting on small 678 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:27,580 things that are relevant to the big 679 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:30,250 picture because they believe that UFOs 680 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:32,050 are already here in extraterrestrial 681 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:33,610 life is already here that why are we 682 00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:35,650 bothering what does it matter if but not 683 00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,780 the scientist says something is out 684 00:29:41,790 --> 00:29:39,520 there and I think that that's it's 685 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:41,800 they're all little pieces to the bigger 686 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:43,930 picture and it you each person has their 687 00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:45,910 own opinion and does their own research 688 00:29:50,820 --> 00:29:48,880 it doesn't mean that one aspect of the 689 00:29:53,220 --> 00:29:50,830 phenomenon is less too important than 690 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:53,230 another and I think the more people 691 00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:54,970 understand that the more we had moved in 692 00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:58,240 a cohesive fashion forward to finding 693 00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:01,600 out you know this big mystery yeah when 694 00:30:05,730 --> 00:30:03,310 you think of it - you followed you it's 695 00:30:08,490 --> 00:30:05,740 it's like a almost like a buffet right 696 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:08,500 you you have disclosure you have 697 00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:11,050 consciousness you have that nuts and 698 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:13,600 bolts stuff all of those things and 699 00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:16,570 really it's too large and broad too to 700 00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:18,880 take all of that on on your own anyway 701 00:30:23,250 --> 00:30:21,310 you know people have it have an interest 702 00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:23,260 in a particular area then you know 703 00:30:27,390 --> 00:30:25,360 research that area you know you know 704 00:30:29,910 --> 00:30:27,400 investigate it and and you know be 705 00:30:32,010 --> 00:30:29,920 satisfied and interested in that there's 706 00:30:34,620 --> 00:30:32,020 there's room for everybody you know 707 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:34,630 figuring opinions you know varying 708 00:30:39,180 --> 00:30:37,690 interest but you know the point is is if 709 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:39,190 you're interested is do something about 710 00:30:47,340 --> 00:30:43,330 it do something with it yeah I love that 711 00:30:50,460 --> 00:30:47,350 being proactive absolutely well I guess 712 00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:50,470 we'll conclude our our MUFON discussion 713 00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:53,440 for tonight by I'll just say you know I 714 00:30:58,560 --> 00:30:55,750 have I have I still have hope for the 715 00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:58,570 organization I really do because I see 716 00:31:04,350 --> 00:31:01,360 it's huge benefit a potential benefit 717 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:04,360 and the great that it already has done 718 00:31:10,820 --> 00:31:08,050 and continues to do needs to get get on 719 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:10,830 track it needs to do a little structural 720 00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:13,210 reorganizing and and put some proper 721 00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:15,550 procedures in place but I am I'm 722 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:18,880 optimistic that MUFON will will continue 723 00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:20,570 and continue down a bed 724 00:31:25,149 --> 00:31:21,769 path I don't think that's gonna happen 725 00:31:27,970 --> 00:31:25,159 anytime soon but I hope recent media 726 00:31:29,379 --> 00:31:27,980 attention is going to give that push in 727 00:31:31,269 --> 00:31:29,389 the right direction I'm with you Ryan I 728 00:31:35,950 --> 00:31:31,279 think that's what's what's going to come 729 00:31:38,259 --> 00:31:35,960 from this nice yes yeah yes code of 730 00:31:42,580 --> 00:31:38,269 conduct you would think right places 731 00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:42,590 start so I'm going to segue now into 732 00:31:47,919 --> 00:31:45,679 something that we can conclude on and I 733 00:31:50,620 --> 00:31:47,929 just wanted to talk about this with you 734 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:50,630 guys because it another recent thing 735 00:31:56,590 --> 00:31:53,330 that happened and that was ancient 736 00:32:01,210 --> 00:31:56,600 aliens you know that's that's still a 737 00:32:03,820 --> 00:32:01,220 thing I'm not a fan of ancient aliens I 738 00:32:06,129 --> 00:32:03,830 never really have been and I talked 739 00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:06,139 about you know organizations and groups 740 00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:08,809 and people within our field you do 741 00:32:13,090 --> 00:32:11,360 things that are you know do more harm 742 00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:13,100 than good I think I think ancient aliens 743 00:32:19,180 --> 00:32:15,440 is in the the basket of doing harm but 744 00:32:20,649 --> 00:32:19,190 that aside for those who who didn't 745 00:32:22,060 --> 00:32:20,659 watch and I didn't watch but there's 746 00:32:26,139 --> 00:32:22,070 certainly been plenty plenty written 747 00:32:30,340 --> 00:32:26,149 about it already the the new episode you 748 00:32:31,810 --> 00:32:30,350 know featured a nice recap of a lot of 749 00:32:34,629 --> 00:32:31,820 the big news that's that's been 750 00:32:37,450 --> 00:32:34,639 happening in the UFO world you know just 751 00:32:39,820 --> 00:32:37,460 this this past year and a lot of that 752 00:32:42,610 --> 00:32:39,830 obviously focusing on the Pentagon's UFO 753 00:32:44,740 --> 00:32:42,620 program on to the Stars Academy of Arts 754 00:32:50,139 --> 00:32:44,750 and Science on Robert Bigelow 755 00:32:51,549 --> 00:32:50,149 and that's all great and fun and I I see 756 00:32:55,119 --> 00:32:51,559 a lot of people in the UFO community 757 00:32:57,879 --> 00:32:55,129 very excited that that was all on TV but 758 00:32:59,560 --> 00:32:57,889 number one it's all old stuff we've we 759 00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:59,570 already know that sure the general 760 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:01,039 public doesn't it's nice to put that in 761 00:33:05,369 --> 00:33:02,450 front of their faces that that's all 762 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:05,379 good but it was really just taking 763 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:08,090 previously released material and putting 764 00:33:13,659 --> 00:33:11,570 it on their show for content and if they 765 00:33:16,210 --> 00:33:13,669 run out of history like the show is 766 00:33:20,529 --> 00:33:16,220 ancient aliens I am sorry 767 00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,539 is 2017 ancient I mean we do have a very 768 00:33:25,539 --> 00:33:22,399 fast new cycle now and things go by 769 00:33:27,879 --> 00:33:25,549 really fast but really ancient aliens is 770 00:33:29,649 --> 00:33:27,889 going to spend most of their episode 771 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:29,659 talking about things that happened just 772 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:32,290 in recent years that's kind of 773 00:33:38,610 --> 00:33:36,130 sorry that was my rant no I I did watch 774 00:33:42,390 --> 00:33:38,620 it i watch this guys and yeah it was 775 00:33:44,550 --> 00:33:42,400 slick it was very informational for 776 00:33:47,310 --> 00:33:44,560 those not in the know who may not have 777 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:47,320 seen the pentagon's story or I mean 778 00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:48,850 here's the thing with the pentagon's 779 00:33:54,570 --> 00:33:52,000 story like it was huge and we all were 780 00:33:58,380 --> 00:33:54,580 pretty excited when it first came out 781 00:34:00,480 --> 00:33:58,390 and what maybe within two weeks just 782 00:34:02,730 --> 00:34:00,490 golfing no one was talking about it 783 00:34:07,380 --> 00:34:02,740 except for you know shows like artists 784 00:34:08,730 --> 00:34:07,390 and more niche communities but you know 785 00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:08,740 we're hoping that'll be a snowball 786 00:34:12,540 --> 00:34:10,240 effect you know the Washington Post 787 00:34:13,110 --> 00:34:12,550 might do a story Politico might do a 788 00:34:19,830 --> 00:34:13,120 story 789 00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:19,840 racism but that aside like yeah it was 790 00:34:24,090 --> 00:34:21,730 it was an overview of everything that 791 00:34:26,340 --> 00:34:24,100 happened with to the stars Pentagon they 792 00:34:28,380 --> 00:34:26,350 got Podesta to be interviewed on this 793 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:28,390 which was interesting to say the least 794 00:34:33,210 --> 00:34:30,970 but yeah absolutely no new information 795 00:34:35,610 --> 00:34:33,220 no bombshells and like you said Jason 796 00:34:39,810 --> 00:34:35,620 ancient aliens wasn't mentioned once in 797 00:34:42,210 --> 00:34:39,820 the entire thing so I understand like 798 00:34:44,070 --> 00:34:42,220 you know if they're a show about UFO is 799 00:34:46,980 --> 00:34:44,080 about alien it's like why not cover 800 00:34:49,340 --> 00:34:46,990 recent events but there was no tying it 801 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:49,350 back to anything nothing like that so 802 00:34:54,149 --> 00:34:51,850 while it was interesting I watched it 803 00:34:56,730 --> 00:34:54,159 with with my girlfriend's family and 804 00:34:58,260 --> 00:34:56,740 they weren't really up with what was 805 00:35:01,260 --> 00:34:58,270 going on with all that so it was cool 806 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:01,270 for them but again like it's the 807 00:35:05,130 --> 00:35:03,130 filtered version of this information 808 00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:05,140 through a major you know cable 809 00:35:09,420 --> 00:35:06,730 television show on their umpteenth 810 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:09,430 season so you're getting their angle of 811 00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:12,130 it and the only thing I can say is 812 00:35:15,810 --> 00:35:14,560 Georgio's hair has gotten smaller so 813 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:15,820 that's that we're headed in the right 814 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:17,710 direction batwave so I'll leave it at 815 00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:17,890 that 816 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:21,040 well his hair lie doesn't agree it's 817 00:35:24,750 --> 00:35:21,970 going the wrong direction 818 00:35:30,930 --> 00:35:24,760 okay so it's more of a this situation 819 00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:30,940 okay yeah Simon and I have not had time 820 00:35:38,790 --> 00:35:36,430 for that I actually saw it you know I 821 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:38,800 thought they did a good job like you 822 00:35:45,370 --> 00:35:41,530 said as an overview but my problem with 823 00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:45,380 it was that it was so in the model of 824 00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:47,839 typical ancient aliens that it didn't 825 00:35:52,569 --> 00:35:50,240 stand out it didn't really make the 826 00:35:54,069 --> 00:35:52,579 impact because you know they're slick 827 00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:54,079 they have good you know good production 828 00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:56,089 value and all these things and it and it 829 00:36:01,599 --> 00:35:58,480 just had that same sort of feel that 830 00:36:03,999 --> 00:36:01,609 everything else has and it just it just 831 00:36:05,740 --> 00:36:04,009 didn't stand out to me as important as 832 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:05,750 it probably should have been because 833 00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:08,450 this kind of loyalty into that ancient 834 00:36:12,370 --> 00:36:10,910 aliens kind of feel and and that was it 835 00:36:14,529 --> 00:36:12,380 but they did you know they did a good 836 00:36:16,269 --> 00:36:14,539 job recapping I'll put it that way 837 00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:16,279 yeah she one thing I wanted to add to 838 00:36:20,859 --> 00:36:18,079 that's a good point that they had 839 00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:20,869 Stephen Bassett on guys and down as we 840 00:36:25,630 --> 00:36:23,089 know he touts the et presence on earth 841 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:25,640 very heavily so when they interviewed 842 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:28,970 him it was you know the the the special 843 00:36:32,650 --> 00:36:31,130 was above the cover up that the 844 00:36:34,509 --> 00:36:32,660 government is keeping this information 845 00:36:36,430 --> 00:36:34,519 from us they showed the the mock 846 00:36:38,970 --> 00:36:36,440 congressional hearings that that's it 847 00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:38,980 put on um the problem with that is 848 00:36:44,109 --> 00:36:41,599 Bassett is touting that ETS are already 849 00:36:46,990 --> 00:36:44,119 here and again this is mainstream 850 00:36:49,150 --> 00:36:47,000 television where most of the public is 851 00:36:51,549 --> 00:36:49,160 not aware of that and I know this is 852 00:36:53,319 --> 00:36:51,559 ancient aliens thing ETS have been here 853 00:36:55,930 --> 00:36:53,329 they've they've influenced everything 854 00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:55,940 but you are talking to an audience who 855 00:37:00,880 --> 00:36:58,640 doesn't necessarily believe that and 856 00:37:02,620 --> 00:37:00,890 here they are saying you know the 857 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:02,630 government's covering this up that I can 858 00:37:06,069 --> 00:37:04,250 believe you know that there are keeping 859 00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:06,079 things secret the Pentagon program for 860 00:37:10,839 --> 00:37:08,960 one but the fact that he's saying you're 861 00:37:12,670 --> 00:37:10,849 an idiot if you don't believe that ETS 862 00:37:14,380 --> 00:37:12,680 have already been here that's kind of 863 00:37:17,380 --> 00:37:14,390 what was happening and that's where I 864 00:37:19,359 --> 00:37:17,390 kind of was like I know like this could 865 00:37:25,420 --> 00:37:19,369 have been handled so much more better so 866 00:37:27,579 --> 00:37:25,430 yeah yeah yeah well and yeah and my my 867 00:37:29,710 --> 00:37:27,589 original comment about this being 868 00:37:34,049 --> 00:37:29,720 ancient aliens in an odd odd place for 869 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:34,059 for history to you know include that 870 00:37:40,089 --> 00:37:37,730 recent news it's just weird I mean is 871 00:37:42,460 --> 00:37:40,099 people all of us have you know been on 872 00:37:44,470 --> 00:37:42,470 UFO programs in our contact that to be 873 00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:44,480 on UFO programs all the time but you 874 00:37:48,009 --> 00:37:45,920 know that that doesn't doesn't fare well 875 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:48,019 for us and further UFO programs if 876 00:37:52,509 --> 00:37:50,210 there's already so little UFO content 877 00:37:55,660 --> 00:37:52,519 out there that ancient aliens is is 878 00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:55,670 going into current events yeah good 879 00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:56,400 point 880 00:38:02,510 --> 00:37:58,770 yeah they got to do the breaking bad 881 00:38:04,910 --> 00:38:02,520 model know when to stop yeah yeah that's 882 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:04,920 right stop taking our work yeah good 883 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:05,250 point 884 00:38:11,740 --> 00:38:09,450 yeah well yeah exactly 885 00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:11,750 all right well I want to thank my 886 00:38:16,610 --> 00:38:14,880 Roundtable all my friends for taking 887 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:16,620 part in this discussion tonight I think 888 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:18,570 you know I wanted to keep it like 889 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:20,610 there's there's a lot of heavy things to 890 00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:23,010 talk about with MUFON and a lot of you 891 00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:26,400 know people from within MUFON and you 892 00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:29,310 know in in leadership roles and and 893 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:31,440 people who were in leadership roles and 894 00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:33,930 have have since left that can really add 895 00:38:36,980 --> 00:38:35,520 to this conversation and it's it's 896 00:38:39,260 --> 00:38:36,990 certainly one that we will revisit 897 00:38:42,020 --> 00:38:39,270 throughout the year because you know I 898 00:38:43,460 --> 00:38:42,030 again brought on possibly by this 899 00:38:44,930 --> 00:38:43,470 Newsweek article I think there's going 900 00:38:46,940 --> 00:38:44,940 to be a lot of a lot of change happening 901 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:46,950 within the organization and hopefully 902 00:38:50,990 --> 00:38:48,930 for the for the better 903 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:51,000 yeah we'll try to talk to people 904 00:38:56,300 --> 00:38:53,490 personally involved in that as it 905 00:38:59,870 --> 00:38:56,310 develops so Ryan Maureen Shayne thank 906 00:39:02,180 --> 00:38:59,880 you so much for hanging out this was fun 907 00:39:06,380 --> 00:39:02,190 you know a new thing for us did you live 908 00:39:09,860 --> 00:39:06,390 with video so huh a couple bugs to work 909 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:09,870 out but I like this so you guys think it 910 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:10,890 works all right we'll try it again 911 00:39:15,350 --> 00:39:12,290 sometime 912 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:15,360 so maybe with alcohol to you that's 913 00:39:25,070 --> 00:39:23,130 always fun right 914 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:25,080 all right everybody thank you so much 915 00:39:29,330 --> 00:39:26,970 for listening and watching if you watch 916 00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:29,340 this live with us check out our website 917 00:39:35,090 --> 00:39:31,710 rogue planet TV that's where all of our 918 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:35,100 strange content is and unknown is always 919 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:36,930 available on iTunes and everywhere else 920 00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:38,490 check out Ryan show somewhere in the